Ive found out today that majority of Spanish men have no respect for women. (im a man so I didnt know, and realise how serious this was) Ive been told by female friends that old men check the girls out as they walk by (old people tend to sit on benches on streets during day time), young guys saying v.offensive things to them...etc. Females seem to be inferior than males in this country. Is that because majority of Spanish are Catholics? From what I know about Catholic, men have more power than women. or is it simply because males here are v.lusty? or is it a cultural thing? I'm yet to find out the reason...
By the way this is completely off topic, I havent seen any automatic cars in Spain yet, except on TVs.
500 Euro dog, I was tempting to get him/her before I looked at the price.
22 comments:
The bible does say that the wife should submit to her husband and generally that man has power over women... So it isn't just Catholic teaching that says it- it is essentially all Christian and Jewish because they are all based on the bible/torah(even if they don't officially recognise it, which most dont because of feminism). I've found that yeah the older people are like that but the younger kids and young adults arent like that as much.
Old guys are always horny tho... they dont really do anything about it in spain or here.
Well I did an experience and walked behind the girls and what do you know, old guys on the bench stared at their bodies like they want to touch them. I found it disgusting. Some of young guys said things like "you are my b!"#$, i like to do you" (in Spanish)...etc Which I've never seen before.
Maybe because I was in an environment where I couldnt see these things ... maybe.
Sure it is discusting... Women should be treated with respect but even in NZ and other western countries they are not as much. There are always little things that when you think about them they are unfortunate, like girls around campus after when it gets dark should/need to have a guy with them. Men will always lust over girls and old men are some of the worst...
"Eres mi puta, me gustaria joderte" That is something that I never really experienced when i was there but i did notice that some younger guys are just dicks. They take the rugby-fag mentality to a higher level. Although, im sure some of the rugby fags would be almost just as bad...
The Bible does say that women are encouraged to submit to there husband, however, the husband is not allowed to domineer over their wife. The husband is only allowed to have any leadership over the wife out of love, cherishing, and protection over his wife. This by no means is intended to allow guys to gawk at women passing by.
Ephesians 5:22
The Message
22-24Wives, understand and support your husbands in ways that show your support for Christ. The husband provides leadership to his wife the way Christ does to his church, not by domineering but by cherishing. So just as the church submits to Christ as he exercises such leadership, wives should likewise submit to their husbands.
From what I've observed and heard, know by talking to Catholics, they believe in one main thing. Every sin we commit is forgiven. Which is true if you ask for forgiveness. They have that set in their minds.
In my opinion, I think half of them do not try hard enough to "not to commit sins". And also they don't base all their beliefs on bible. So maybe that's why some people sin (lust in this case) without realising it's a serious matter. What do you think?
Read Matthew 5 if you havent.
(Don't hesitate to criticise me)
To be honest, we all sin, because we all sinful. Man, in and of itself, is sinful by nature. Any man,however, can be saved if he asks Christ into his heart,and forgiven if he asks for forgiveness. For a lot of people, it is easier to sin, and then ask for forgiveness. That way they get to have their cake, and eat it, too. But by trying your best to abide by the "rules" set forth in the Bible, you build up treasures in heaven. You can't earn your way in to heaven. You either accept Jesus, or deny him.
Leaving the issue that sparked this debate behind and entering into a more general religious discussion. Essentially both Jews and Christians of all denominations do not follow the Torah, do not follow Yahweh's teachings.
Jews are closer to what the bible says (and hense what Yahweh says) than christians but with the Rabbi teachings included- despite often not relating to what is taught in the torah, means that they still dont follow Yahweh's teachings.
Now I don't mean to marginalise your faith and your belief structure but essentially you are going against Yahweh's teachings. The Sabbath runs from Friday when the sun goes down to Saturday when the sun goes down- not SUNday. Pork is not okay to eat. Halloween is not ok because "it is harmless fun", it is a pagan day of the dead and Yeshua and Yahweh teach us that we should rid our lives of all pagan elements.
I realise that you may say that this is a fundamentalist view and that the bible is not meant to be taken literally but it is. One of the basis of our faith is that the Torah/bible is the work of Yahweh's hand- hense all of it is, as we say, "the gospel truth".
Do not consider this an attack on your faith- but rather an opening for discussion (which i know is very hard to do when talking about such things) I have a friend who is Nazarene Israelite- and basically summarised her arguments against me, a (non-practicing) catholic.
Oh and Ryun, I dont think you can make the assumption that Catholics necessarily respect women less than other christians... keep in mind that one pillar of their faith is of the sanctity of Mary the mother of God. I sure hope that your ideas of Catholics in this light dont stem from me... all Christian faiths are so similar that you cant really draw lines between them socially- essentially if you are saying that catholics hav minimal respect for women that it extends to all christians.
I think it is just a social thing is Spain...
And I'd be interested to hear comments about previous post- i need some good material to shoot back at my friend- i have nothing atm
I will get back to u asap. Right now im fighting against some kind of fever or really bad cold and it's making me extremely tired ..etc I havent been to school for a few days.
Just few things you should know.
You realise protestants don't believe in Virgin Mary? We see her as a woman who gave birth to Jesus, nothing more. "Mother of God"? Wow, hold on. She is still a human being, a sinner isn't she? And why would you see her as a holy being?
The Trinity, shouldn't we be only following them? I mean they are Gods afterall.
Jesus did say in the bible that Sunday is the sabbath day and we should not work. It's the day to honor/worship God...etc
And one more thing, was Yahweh like Moses? Who has been supported by God? If not, I dont see why we should listen to him.
go to http://www.victorious.org/chur40.htm
if you have time.
I hope I'm not killing your holiday! Im so sorry if i am X(
Ahem.... Ryun, in the bible it says that the Sabbath is on a Saturday not a Sunday...
Yahweh is the proper name for
God... it is his name... and Yeshua is the proper name for Jesus.
And Catholics believe in the sanctity of Mary because she was touched by Yahweh, she was a Virgin when Yeshua was conceived. She isn't like another part of the trinity but becasue of her holiness in being chosen by Yeshua she is worthy of our respect and we should give her that. I believe that is essentially the argument.
We respect so many of the saints and apostles and stuff but they all sinned too- and they didnt have nearly as big as a calling as Mary had, so it goes from there that we should respect and admire Mary more.
That link is an excellent peice of non-catholic Christian propaganda.
I'm sure a lot of the points that they make in there are very much true. Most of the differences between Catholicism and other Christianity are probably very well documented in that article. However I was not arguing that Catholicism is "better" or "more true" than Christianity, I was arguing that it is all wrong.
"The Protestant Church generally embraces the Bible as its sole source of authority and faith, while the Catholic Church views the post-biblical traditions of the church and its Popes to have more than equal authority with scripture."
-If this were the case then for Christians;
-the Sabbath would be on Saturday (Mormans have it right)
-Jesus and God would be Yeshua and Yahweh
-The concept of 'unclean' and 'clean' would be commonplace in talking about food, people, and most everything relating to faith
-All pagan beliefs would be out of the religion- communion, the majority of Christian holidays....
Anyway- here is Jose's Ph number, he asked me to give it to you when I tlked to u next. 610 21 16 20
I still don't fully agree with Mother Mary but I do understand your point.
Woops about the Sabbath day, you are right. I believe Constatine changed the day for the political reason correct? Does it straight away put you off from going to church though? I just think even though the date has changed, the meaning of it hasn't changed. I mean in modern days, some people do work from Monday - Saturday and their rest can only be on Sunday you know?
The reason I've made an assumption that catholics respect women lesser respect is because Ive never seen a woman preach in catholic churches.
Arg! Why cant there be only one type of Chritianity? Do you think one day maybe whole different christians believe the same things?
Women do read the first and second readings and do the prayers of the faithful and all that stuff- just they arent priests... Whether this is right or not... I dont know, dont really have an oppinion on that matter.
Essentially all christians do believe in the same thing, they are all so similar that the differences get blown out of proportion somewhat.
The meaning of the Sabbath has changed- however it is going against the teachings of Yahweh. He said that we should get rid of all pagan beliefs and pagan symbols but christians have the Sabbath on a SUNday- sun worshipers. You are right- constantine really did blend together a few religions into one
Rsnumber2, I would be interested to hear what you have to say about the matter.
Christians worship on sunday, because Jesus rose on the first day of the week. It just happens to fall on a day called Sunday. Look at this verse though: Col 2 16-17
Point taken- However I do also recognise the validity of some of my friends points as well. I'll understand if you do not want to address some of the other points (ie paganism in christianity) directly.
Alright I relayed all that to my nazarene israelite friend and they said that Shaul's (Paul's) words often get twisted to support other religions. That the context of the statement is that he is talking about pagans questioning the torah, Yaweh's law. It is thus that she said that you cannot apply Paul's teaching in such a way.
With regard to your explanation of why the Sabbath is on a sunday... She asked why does the one instance of Yahshua rising on a sunday undo what has been written in the scriptures, what Yaweh and Yahshua say when the Sabbath should be?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205:17-18;&version=48; - Yahshua says he hasnt come to change the torah... How does this sit with christians who break the torah and then try and justify it with saying that certain aspects of the bible can be misunderstood/construed/twisted to serve their own religion.
Her arguments are extremely pursuasive... I am struggling for a good reason why her version of events is not correct and why christianity is justified.
I am not a great debater. If you need further explanation, I suggest talking directly to a man of the cloth (a preacher or priest of many different views). I further suggest that you pray whole heartedly that the Lord lead your heart to a place of worship. Your relationship with Jesus Christ, the son of God, is paramount. As I stated above, if you believe he was born as your savior and died for payment of your sins, then you will be saved. Apart from that, all works done on earth will determine your payment in Heaven.
About the paganism etc., I do believe we should rid ourselves of as much of it as possible. But we should not allow a day that we worship the Lord be moved because other people decided to do something that day too. What a pagan does (or did) on one day has no impact on my love for God/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit. If someone were to declare Sundays as "Talk like a Pirate Day," that would have no effect on my pattern of speech or my visit to my church that morning.
Back on topic,
The sabbath law was the only law not repeated by Jesus during his ministry. The rest of the 10 commandments were reiterated, except for keeping the sabbath.
Here are a few more links:
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
I am sorry if I am not able to show any further proof. Again, if you wish to hear a better, more detailed explanation, you should visit several churches of different denominations, and pray very fervently that God open the door to the church that is correct. I have prayed many times, and tried several churches, but I keep getting led back to the same church. That is all that I can say on the matter. I can not engage in a discussion between two people with an intermediary, and hope to change ones heart. Only the Lord can do that. I strongly believe the you will not burn in hell for not keeping the sabbath, but you will not enter heaven without Jesus Christ. And keep in mind, how you live the rest of the week is important, too. We are discussing the sabbath, but every day belongs to the Lord, no matter what we do or how we worship him. I am afraid that I have said all that I can. I will pray, however, that God does lead you to the correct path. I honestly do. You have a good heart for wanting to know about and make up your mind without blindness. So I have no doubt that God will gladly lead you to his door. It is up to you to enter in to it. No one can make that decision but you.
For the sake of civility and my respect for Ryun, I won't get sucked in to your match about who recieves redemption and why/why not- I believe I've made the arguement.
I will however reiterate a few points that you have seemed to "overlook".
Yahshua said that he did not come to change the Torah, and he followed the Torah as well. If you are following Yahweh and Yahshua then you should honour the Torah as well, the Ten Commandments is not an exhaustive list of what Yahweh wants you to do.
Yahshua celebrated the Sabbath on a Saturday... That point is clear in the bible, it is the last day of the week, when Yahweh rested after creating the world. It was changed to created in order to create stability in the Roman empire under the banner of religion. To appease Pagans, they changed the sabbath to sunday. It just so happened that some days of note fell on sundays. Yahshua rising, the accension, the apostles breaking bread one day. However, as I said before, Yahshua did not come to change the torah. The torah again and again says that the Sabbath is on the seventh day, Saturday.
I am sorry if I came across wrong. I warned you I wasn't a good debater! ;) I have tried to follow the teachings of Jesus as close as I can, but I do realize that I will be learning for the rest of my life. You have given me something to investigate further than I had before. Again, I didn't mean to sound arrogant or anything, but I don't have the greatest skill of putting my thoughts into words. But I agree with you, Ryun is a great guy, and this is probably not the best place to debate this subject matter. I wish you well. Maybe I'll see you on here agian sometime. No hard feelings.
Yeah, I went through the same thing when I first met my friend who expressed this point of view. It's an extremely convincing argument and I'm still searching for a counter argument. If I cannot find one, either by my priest back home or any other means, then I think I am going to join their congregation- if only to see where it leads.
I probably sounded rather agressive in pointing out the apparent problems with our christian faith. It is not meant as a personal attack on your faith- more the expression of a different (and possibly more plausible) point of view. You seem like a cool guy, from how you have discussed here, from what Ryun has said and the fact that Ryun thinks highly of you. I wish you well in exploring your faith.
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